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The Great Atlantica Debate - Stamina Stays!

Category: Debate Game: Default Posted on Aug 20, 2008 1:04 am


 

 

 

 

See this? This is STAMINA.

Get used to it because it’s going to be in just about every MMO available… or every F2P at least.

 

There’s been a huge amount of debate around the stamina issue for Atlantica, with the vast majority of people calling for a boycott of the game if the stamina system is not removed. But I suppose you wanna know what stamina is, right?

 

For the uninitiated, stamina is a system that limits players to 100 random battles per day (reduced to 50 once the player passes level 50). 100 stamina is offered from the beginning of the game and one point removed for each battle the player is in. Once the stamina counter reaches zero the player receives no experience points or items from any further battles. Stamina resets once every 24 hours.

 

Stamina was introduced to Atlantica with the closed beta 2.0 patch and received a massive backlash from the gaming community – and I do mean massive.

Thousands of players have been flooding forum boards and comment sections whining about how stamina has ruined the game for them. Starelf (some sort of writer I guess) revised one of his/her reviews to include stamina, reducing Atlantica’s score from a perfect ten to a zero on every single detail and explained with wonderful clarity why this is the case. Starelf is dead wrong, though I heartily recommend finding his review and pinning it up to your wall to remind you to never-ever be such a greedy, clueless gamer.

 

The stamina system is a fantastic innovation that has the potential to completely change the face of F2P (and possibly even some P2P) games as we know them. I know what you’re thinking: “Tob u L4m3r n00b, how can I possibly play a game that limits me from playing?!”

The answer is simple; you just have to calm down for a moment and think of the gaming industry as a whole.

 

Atlantica is free to play. Free.You don’t need to pay anything unless you want to.

However, I can guarantee that it was not free to make. Real people with real jobs and real lives developed this game – not just for your enjoyment but to earn a living themselves. Ndoors (the developer) has chosen to go F2P purely to allow people to enjoy the game as much as they want and still make some money through the Ingame Mall from gamers who want to step up their game a bit. I would imagine that a lot of thought went into balancing the stamina system as well as the number given (before level 50 at least) is not incredibly restrictive. 100 stamina allowed me to play for 8 hours straight, clearing through quests and traveling from place to place, without running out. I don’t think I want to meet anyone who wants to play for longer than that in one sitting. While the game is still in beta the system will be tweaked to allow for maximum enjoyment from players. The closed beta ended a few days ago and already Ndoors has announced that the stamina system will be changed to allow 20 unused points to rollover to the next day and 1 point regenerated every ten minutes while not in battle. Too bad they’re being drowned out in a sea of cruel, merciless gamers who think that Ndoors is completely evil for taking away the game that they loved so much and are now calling for blood. These very same people are also overlooking other additional benefits that will change MMO gaming for the better.

 

For example, limiting the amount of battles available will completely stop botting and greatly discourage gold farming. Botting/farming is a plague on our industry and ruin worlds created for us to enjoy. It’s not just our industry either. Most of us will have seen gold farming sweatshops, places where people (sometimes even children) are paid a pitiful amount to constantly play games in order to make ingame currency to sell on to wealthier players. One reported farming “company” have paid their workers as little as 30 cents an hour. You might think it’d be fun to be paid to play video games all day, but remember: These are REAL people, trying to earn a living or feed their family, and they’re being treated like slaves.

 


It also stops people from constantly grinding the lower level mobs to obtain tons of items (which is bad because the economy is determined by players)

I know, I know… the extraordinary amount of items needed in Atlantica for crafting or upgrading might seem like you’re being forced to grind and now stamina restricts that, but guess what?

While you were busy yelling for a boycott you failed to notice that the drop rates for these items had been increased! Yup, they can be found on lower level mobs and more frequently than before. Ndoors actually have put a lot of thought into this… so why haven’t the gamers?

 

Simple. It’s because we are so passionate about what we do. Atlantica IS a great game, with or without stamina, but players feel like they’re being ripped off by this new system. If this had been introduced into a much crappier game (and it may have already for all I know, I don’t spend a lot of time playing crappy games) then people would not have been involved in such a huge argument. The sheer amount of people calling for a boycott over stamina is a testament to how great Atlantica is. Ndoors should be proud.

 

As gamers, we all have expectations… but when a developer makes a beta game available then there are certain things expected of us as well.

As gamers, we should be encouraging our developers to improve games by providing constructive feedback when they make a wrong move.

As gamers… we should not be afraid to try something new before spitting on the people who try so hard to feed our passions.

 

I really hope that this is not the end for Atlantica. Years from now we should be able to look back and say that this is the moment that F2P games were changed for the better.

 

Either that, or it’ll be the day that a great game was killed by it’s own players…

 

 

-Tob

 


comments ( 18 )

StonerMk2
Post Time : Aug 23,2008 12:11 am
Ah Y2k Lol Yea i was like 13 at the time and my dad said, "Welp, if the power goes out, guess we'll just go to bed" Lol. Though now i hear theres a new Y2K for 2010 *rolls eyes*

Anyway, i understand where your coming from n stuff, i just find it crazy to limit your player base's play tiime, seems counter productive imo, but stopping botting and gold farming is a must, i mean look at SRO and Rohan BF, both decent games, just have serious botting/hacking/gold farming issues. Ive never played a game with these sort of limitations and hopefully never will ,but ill possibly try the game out at some point in time, ive tried almost everything else out there, lol so why not.
aedaad
Post Time : Aug 22,2008 4:24 pm

the stamina system is one of the many diseases to mmos

StonerMk2
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 9:10 pm
Honestly i havent played this game and i dont ever plan on playing it. But this Stamina system just sounds like their way of draining the people that pay for item mall stuff of their money. I can imagine when the Item Mall releases there will be items that will "recharge or replenish" your stamina.Also to the people that say you shouldnt play games for more then 2-3 hours a day...go ****rselves. I have a life, i go to work every day, take care of my wife and child every day and still spend 5-6 hours a day doing what i love to do...play video games, and no one will tell me that i shouldnt be playing them that long. I have the right to play my video games 5-6 hours a day if i damn well please.  No game company will EVER restrict how long i choose to play a game, no matter how it may change the way MMO's deal with the pathetic wastes of skins that bot and farm.
TobiasMasters replied at 1:00 am Aug 22,2008
The stamina system is definitely a thorn in our sides at this stage and it may or may not get improved further down the track... but that's not my argument.

I'm sick of people screeching about how UNenjoyable the game is now (such as my friend below) when that is purely not the case.

You can't always listen to the vocal majority and assume that they are 100% correct... anyone remember Y2K? Yeah...

Try the game out and you'll see what I mean =D
freekosuave
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 5:23 pm

The stamina system ruined that game. I COULD very well have been able to play a few hours (say on the weekends), instead they made the game unenjoyable. Not so much unplayable, but I simply derive no fun from playing the game with the stamina system the way it is. I had 2 days lost to stamina because I was in the middle of a quest and whoops .. no more stamina. What I will say is that I really dont care about stamina or the stamina system. What the problem is . on the other hand is that it conpletely shuts the game down on you. You can do nothing. Especially when you are first starting out. Its 100 battles and done. May as well log off, since you have no options available to you for regaining stamina except waiting for tomorrows reset.

To me, its just a horribly failed attempt at making players experience other parts of the game exceot the mindless grind to the next level. Most glaring problem there, is that nothing relevant to regaining stamina is at all in any way shape or form fun.

Therefore this game is unenjoyable, but definately playable. At least for about 30 minutes every day.

TobiasMasters replied at 12:55 am Aug 22,2008
Did I mention the mindless gamers yet? I did? Excellent.

You, sir, have proven that particular point better than I ever could. Look closely children - these are the people you must not accept candy from.

The rest of you, do your very best to NOT be like this.
ninpofoo
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 4:29 pm
to kit21..you shouldn't really be playing games for 2-3 hours...thats a long time..and I think they want people to have a life, not trying to insult you
TobiasMasters replied at 12:52 am Aug 22,2008
Not that long actually... My average session is usually about 6 hours at a time, even longer when I'm reviewing.

I spent 13 hours straight on Atlantica for the review =S
ninpofoo
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 4:27 pm
when i said 90%..I meant im 90% with you xD
ninpofoo
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 4:27 pm
when i said 90%..I meant im 90% with you xD
AxleRose
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 4:27 pm

Stamina System is the worst thing they can do to this game..This game is going tobe a grind fest for sure..Bring your wallet with you and spend that hard earn cash for a worthless game...Oh sure the game is in beta but idi u forget>>>?

1)Bad enough Stamina hinder game play..

2)Your exps rate will drop>>That means more grinding.Again Stamina will hinder this also.

3)Item drops..It wont be the same amount as we see in cb..again more grind and stamina will hinder this also..

4)Alot of us dont like to pvp or even party with players unless it is the Boss quest.This game is trying to force you todo this..Again Stamina will hinder solo playing in the long run..

5)There alot more but i have to stop for now..One last thing bring your wallet you going to need it for the item mall for exps boost..And for your merc..It wont come cheap either..Its just going tobe a grind Stamina fest...To bad this game couldnt go pay to play with out the stamina system in it...

 

 

TobiasMasters replied at 12:50 am Aug 22,2008
3) Maybe. The item drop rates might still be tweaked to better balance the game. I too hope that it won't be lowered to favour Ndoors, but that's up to them in the end.

4) I like to play solo myself. It is slightly irritating that PvP is the only continual way to regenerate stamina. However this system (if used right) can help players to form friendships and alliances that they may not have otherwise. All I argue for is that the game is given a chance to prove itself.

5) Agreed. I would like to see Atlantica go P2P (after various improvements of course) but the stamina system might actually be more useful than you think. The devs have to use it properly, otherwise this whole exercise is pointless
ninpofoo
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 4:26 pm
Tob screw everyone insulting you for writing this..Im 90%...the other 10% is for lvl 50+..they should have more stamina becuz its harder to level for them. But yea..I hate botters and I think stamina should stay and I'm proud ndoors kept it..and people boycotting the game becuz of stamina..lol go ahead...the other people will have fun while your all whining

f2P +Tob FTW :D
TobiasMasters replied at 12:44 am Aug 22,2008
Cheers =D

Personally I like the insults. Everyone is free to express their opinion (as I have above) and the more people who insult me the more people prove themselves to be passionate gamers. Every threat to boycott and every flame directed at Ndoors is just more proof that Atlantica has many passionate gamers on side.

Would a crappy game be able to generate this much of a frenzy?
ironsarge
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 2:27 pm
Well i remembered another game that had/has a stamina system , if i aint mistaken its rappelz although its diferent in rappelz it started out like stamina would give a bonus exp while u had it and stamina only recovered while a person was logged out or in a town.. but soon they also changed that they put the so called stamina savers in item mall and took out the regen of the stamina :D i really hope that Atlantica doesnt go the same way .. even not being a "turn based" addict i still like to play it :P

Ps: soz about the engrish :P
TobiasMasters replied at 12:41 am Aug 22,2008
Many games have stamina-esque bonuses (WoW for instance) but this is the first many have seen that actually penalise for it.

In fact, if I remember correctly, WoW also penalised players with the "rested" system originally. They withdrew it pretty quick though, possibly due to similar backlash as Atlantica is experiencing now.
Netheron
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 2:19 pm
Sorry, apparently my comment was cut off, so I'll settle for two questions/demands.
Netheron
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 12:51 pm
I was rather curious about this perspective so I have several questions/demands ( which is why I even bothered to make an account in the first place).
1) Concerning the portion surrounding level 51's and above, how do you think it will affect players when it comes to leveling (or more affectionately known as grinding)?  From my experience, despite the extra activities which enable me to procure means to regain stamina, grinding past level 50 becomes extremely tedious with a stamina restriction.  In conjunction to that, limiting how much activity a player can do, referring to the base level of 50 points, would almost undoubtedly add strain to the process as well as making it generally more tedious and time consuming.  In fact, one could argue that it is a business model (I'm pretty sure this is the business model that's adopted anyways) that pushes the most enthusiastic of players to make monetary investments just to keep ahead of the competition.  Is that the reward for loving the game?  Perhaps...
2) Despite you just insulting all gamers in general and labeling most gamers against your position as thoughtless (perhaps just every gamer is thoughtless, who knows?) with the statement: "Ndoors actually have put a lot of thought into this… so why haven’t the gamers?", I was hoping you can prove Ndoors having actually put the large amount of thought into the system.  Despite myself being a thoughtless gamer, I would have imagined that some general opinion would have been called for before implementing such a different system to the game.  Surely a company doesn't hope for backlash, yet it couldn't possibly have been overlooked if they put that much thought into it... then again, I'm thoughtless, what do I know?
3) I was also curious about the item dropping system.  While it certainly does help in the sense that a single player can now find mater
TobiasMasters replied at 12:37 am Aug 22,2008
1) Sadly once the stamina cap gets reduced from lvl50 onwards, a lot of the enjoyment actually will be lost for most players. This is a huge negative of the system and it's also why it's so important that Ndoors finds the correct balance. Over time I think we'll see vast improvements in the overall structure of "Stamina" that will make the game feel more rewarding while still giving the developers a few extra coins in their purses.

2. I've done my research. I've heard from thousands of gamers who want to see this game die before giving Ndoors a chance to react. I meant no offense to anyone who haven't taken a stab at Ndoors with an uninformed knee-jerk response to stamina. Those that have: Hang your heads in shame...
Josmal
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 10:11 am
Tobias, great article, you got all the facts right. People just haven't learned how to play the game. All the other MMO's teached ppl that they gotta grind to succed and they are trying to apply the same formula to this game, but guess what... it won't work. This game is different in so many aspects... people gotta evolve, we are playing with thousand of other players and we barely interact with each other. This game is "forging" a great community, forcing people to make new friends but in the end we'll be thanking Ndoors for this.
Like you, i really hope to see the stamina system in more games, is great in so many levels...
hfclee
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 10:01 am
o i am sorry, since when did pro = high level? As I recall, for a person that is not a noob, even at the same level, the pro should be better than the noob. Real gamers doesnt need to be high lvl to be good, otherwise they are also noobs. And on the contrary, u "real gamers" are boycotting this stamina system because you cant level faster than the noobs to own them, thus masking urselves as noobs.
ubengay
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 1:57 am
stamina  a fail system  get over it it only for noobs  that dont like people to be higher lvl then them   it just keep real gamers from being then best and lets all noob   keep in same  lvl range so theres  no high lvl  and  no low lvls  everyone in the middle 
kit21
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 1:50 am
good article but 100 stamina doesnt last for 8 hours.. O.o like pengued said.. i wasted mine in about 2-3 hours i wasnt keeping track exactly tho so i dont know the exact time xD but it was 2-3 hours.

I do agree that this stamina system would make gold farming and botting alot less which is a good thing.. and it wont really bother casual gamers but for the true hard core gamers that play every minute that they have free.. then this stamina system will really hurt them.

but again.. good article and i dont really like or dislike this system.. lol when i run out i just go play a differnt game xD but i do think they could redo it so that the stamina will last a lil longer.. or will be easier to restore(most likely they will sell items in the cash shop to restore stamina.. which will make the game really unbalanced if they do...) They just need to work on it more and get it tuned just right for all gamers.
Layce
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 8:39 am
If a good game makes me addicted for long hour gameplay, then 100 stamina simply just far not enough for me to spend on my gameplay = very very much not enough. For me, I can play a game that I love until I am blackout myself =P
pengued
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 8:04 am
100 tamina take 8 hours? I waste them in 1.5hours :D