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The Great Atlantica Debate - Stamina Goes!

Category: Debate Game: Default Posted on Aug 20, 2008 1:04 am




These days, it's fairly common for a new MMO to have a Beta Test period before the release of a game. This generally takes place in 2 stages, a Closed Beta and an Open Beta - with Closed Beta being used to find and eliminate bugs, and Open Beta used to stress test the server to make sure they can handle the player base without server crashes and lag. Some games have a second closed Beta Test, this being used to experiment with new ideas and patches and gauge a response from the players. Atlantica is one such game.

The reason I mention this process is that many people are unaware of it, rarely does a game make significant changes in these tests and as a result they usually go by unnoticed. Atlantica chose a different path with their second Closed Beta Test, they chose to add a new gameplay element entirely, one that would later be known as Stamina - the destroyer of worlds.

 The Stamina system in Atlantica works simply, you begin the day with 100 Stamina Points (50 once you reach level 50), and after every battle one point is lost. Once you have consumed your daily stipend of Stamina you will no longer receive experience or loot from battles. At first glance this isn't really a problem, as while following the Main Story you would be hard pressed to spend 100 Stamina in a day, it could happen wouldn't really be an issue. But after playing for a while, you begin to realise just how taxing this new system is, and just how much it changes the game. "How does it change the game?" I hear you asking, well - let's take a look.

Crafting
 Atlantica uses a unique crafting system, in which you are required to fight battles to produce certain Items. To make a sword for example, one might need to fight 3 battles. However, making 16 swords (Which amount to a single +4 Sword when combined) could take over 20 battles - thus using 20 stamina points. I made hundreds of swords in the original closed beta, I spent hours and hours grinding away and leveling my craft, something that I found to be very enjoyable. (OK fine, the grinding wasn't enjoyable but the cash I sold the swords for was!) With the new Stamina system, I could do this for a few hours, but afterward I can no longer play the game and receive my experience and loot.

Monster Lore
One of the amazing features included in Atlantica was the ability to obtain information on monsters by fighting them. This happened in 3 stages, and usually took hours to complete. But for some (fans of 100% completion like myself) this was an enjoyable addition to the game, that added incredible depth and entertainment. Additionally, you are able to share this information with other players, giving the opportunity to help out new guys and friends. Once again, Stamina destroys this system, as with only a 100 battles a day collecting Monster Info falls low in the list of priorities.

Ashen Crystals
Once you have leveled a mercenary to level 20, you are required to spend 50 Ashen Crystals to upgrade them - making them stronger and gaining access to new abilities. As such, it was common to find many players grinding monsters to collect these crystals, so that they could upgrade their characters. Alternatively, you could sell them on the market and fetch a nice profit allowing those with the perseverance to grind a fantastic way to make money. This also is no longer a possibility, as 100 battles can be used up very quickly when farming these crystals.

Player-driven Economy
The economy in Atlantica is completely player-driven, this means that in order to buy or sell anything you must include another play in the process. Materials, Items, Weapons, Armour - everything is bought and sold through the game's market and in many people's opinion, all the better for it. Except now with the Stamina system, players are no longer able to influence this in the way that they could before, the prices of items have skyrocketed as with a limited number of them available they have increased in value. We all know that this ties in nicely with the soon to be implemented 'Cash-Shop', by using real money players will be able to beat the Stamina side-effects and perform better in the game. Yes, Atlantica is a F2P game and the company is required to make their money somehow - but is forcing us to spend money really the right way to do it?

Choice
My final example today is choice, as in it's core it is choice that affects us the most. The main difference between a Single-Player game and an MMO (Aside from the other players) is that in an MMO there is an entire new level of choice. Which way to go, what quests to do, where to explore, who to ally with, and who to kill. All of these choices and many more have become the key factor in why we play MMOs, and the inclusion of the stamina system has robbed us of that choice. We are no longer able to make choices without sacrifice and penalty, and this for many has forced them to stop playing Atlantica entirely.

In response to the cries of the public, the Stamina system was recently revised. Three changes were made to improve the system, they were:

1. If a player has Stamina points remaining, a maximum of 20 Stamina points for players Level 50 and below and a maximum of 10 Stamina points for players Level 51 and above will carry over to the next day at 6 a.m. PDT every day. (Stamina resets every day at 6 a.m. PDT.)

2. A player at Level 50 and above will regenerate 1 Stamina point every 10 minutes that the player is not in battle with monsters.

3. A player can earn 1 Stamina point by responding to a help request, sending a gift to a beginner, and sharing information.This type of point recovery will be limited to 5 times per day per method (total 15 times).

To which the people responded:

1. We have been saying that we will run out of Stamina in a matter of hours, and to help this problem you offer us the ability to carry some of it over? We dont have any left to carry over, that was the problem to begin with!

2. Although not a major addition, this is a step in the right direction... unfortunately it only really helps 5% of the players - the rest of us won't be making it to level 50 with the current system, thus it wont really be helping us.

3. Awesome. By spending hours of time and much of our money, we can at a maximum fight an additional 15 battles per day - that most likely wont cover the cost of obtaning them in gold, and will lose us much of our time. What happened to choice? The fate of our characters are no longer in our hands...

 In the end, it is the lack of choice that effects this situation the most. There are a number of reasons why Stamina should be kept, as I'm sure you have already heard from Tobias (and if you haven't then click the link at the bottom to check them out), but the core of this situation lies with the success of Atlantica, and the people have spoken - remove the Stamina system from Atlantica, or we'll remove Atlantica from our computers.

comments ( 17 )

ajthebaka
Post Time : Sep 03,2008 2:43 pm
Nice idea between you guys, I must say you were both very good at persuading my view on the issue. But it's basically just like a debate on democracy, where it has both good and bad sides to it, and I hate politics xD
AxleRose
Post Time : Aug 23,2008 4:46 am
Jasmel Why dont you learn how to write with out insulting other players?>>Your said this..>>>Go play Rohan or Perfect World, like the rest of the sheep.<<<So dont this make you a hypocrite?I play PW...And i dont play ATO.Unless they remove the Stamina System...So the bottom line is this.. If you could comprehend what you write you could have seen that! Hehehe
Josmal
Post Time : Aug 22,2008 6:24 pm
So he can say i can't make my own decisions but i can't call him sheep? wow, he insulted me first, if you could comprehend what you read you could have seen that. I just hope you all stay away from Atlantica.
Why you are going to play a game you don't like? That would be... dumb.
Am i allowed to say that?
hooptyman
Post Time : Aug 22,2008 12:33 pm
Aug 21,2008 10:00 pm

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Quote neramaar
It's not an article, it's a debate. :) I'm not mentioning the good points...that's Tob's job.

I'm happy that you respond better when you're being told what to do, just don't assume that the rest of us do, I like to make my own decisions.
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Your own decisions? lol Follow the rest you Sheep. You get scared when you see the water moving.
Wanna Keep playing grindfests like you have been tought for the last decade? Good for you, there are a toon out there.
Go play Rohan or Perfect World, like the rest of the sheep. Or learn to play a new game... start thinking.
We are not here to flame players for there thoughts and or opinion..There is enough of that on the ATO Forum..So if you want todo that, I suggest you Josmal to follow the sheeps there and dont bring it here...Grow up this is not the ATO forum..
neramaar replied at 1:23 am Aug 23,2008
Thanks Hoopty, you're completely right. I find it best to just ignore them, and giggle once they're gone.
Josmal
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 10:00 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote neramaar
It's not an article, it's a debate. :) I'm not mentioning the good points...that's Tob's job.

I'm happy that you respond better when you're being told what to do, just don't assume that the rest of us do, I like to make my own decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your own decisions? lol Follow the rest you Sheep. You get scared when you see the water moving.
Wanna Keep playing grindfests like you have been tought for the last decade? Good for you, there are a toon out there.
Go play Rohan or Perfect World, like the rest of the sheep. Or learn to play a new game... start thinking.
antile
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 9:08 pm
i've gone on 17 hour runs without running out of stamina.  no pvp, no stamina pills, just partying.
neramaar replied at 1:25 am Aug 23,2008
Nice! It's good to see a player with proper time management. Unfortunetly developers are required to go with the majority in cases such as these, they need money to survive and it's the players that have the money. :)
junkroom
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 8:14 pm

Implementing the stamina has made the guild/town quest hard to do too...

Btw, they have made announcement that there won't be Cash Shop item that affect the stamina. It's stated at http://atlantica.ndoorsgames.com/center/news/notice_view.asp?list_seq=131 

Wil they change it or not, that's another story :p

AxleRose
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 1:48 pm
Nice article! But you will hear people say well the stamina isnt that bad or i never ran out..I wouldnt either if i didnt stay in the game long enough todo so..And alot of them dont even know there a Korean ATO with out the Stamina System in it.And let me tell you the Korean ATO is awesome..Now compare that to the ATO what we have now with a Stamnia System..It just make you leave that Stamina System behind you dont want togo back..It is wothless and should have never been put into the game.Somewhere along the line this Stamina System is going to hinder the game..I mean after all, the company needs to make some money..And there are alot of young players with out cash.I am a adult but wont support a worthless game..My perdiction is this..As soon as new mmorpg comes out you can kiss ATO and there Stamina System good bye it will be just another grinder game with high prices in the Item mall..
neramaar replied at 7:51 pm Aug 21,2008
Yep...at the very least the inclusion of this Stamina system is going to lose Atlantica a lot of playerts, and when there are less players - less new ones join. It's a downward spiral to the servers closing on yet another game with great potential.
Josmal
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 10:04 am
I don't agree with you.
Im lvl 54, i play 5+ hours a day, sometimes 12+ on weekends, i'm almost Artisan (21+ skill lvl) in rings, and guns; craftsman in bullets.
I've ran out of Stamina only once, when i was under level 30, after that i've only consumed 1 stamina pill and i have 5k plus mentor points for more pills, u didnt mention that in your article.
The day i leveled from 49 to 52 i ended up with 132 stamina points... 3 levels and i had more stamina than when i started!
You, and all other solo grinders who are whinning should learn to play the game. I had always been a soloer after this game, now that im forced to party, mentor, be in a guild, etc., im having the best time of mi life in a MMO. I have my guild, we own Copenhagen... just learn to play a different kind of game... u gotta evolve.
neramaar replied at 7:45 pm Aug 21,2008
It's not an article, it's a debate. :) I'm not mentioning the good points...that's Tob's job.

I'm happy that you respond better when you're being told what to do, just don't assume that the rest of us do, I like to make my own decisions.
SilverSeraph
Post Time : Aug 21,2008 12:59 am
Good article.  Hopefully ndoor's is able to rework the system so it's not so restrictive. Otherwise the game will likely be dead before it gets out the gate.
neramaar replied at 7:47 pm Aug 21,2008
I agree. As much as I like the Stamina system - I like Atlantica more, and the game has gone from hero to zero rather quickly since the inclusion of Stamina.
Layce
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 8:35 am
Its refreshing fun to see both u and tobias discussing about one thing in here ^^ reading u and tobias article really gives me so much fun =P Well I dont feel I like the idea of stamina counter playing a game when u can only play 100 times and when it is depleted then u have to wait for another day to play...its like not necessary at all for this especially gamers like us, even a small kid will not satisfy enough to play such less rounds of game, so I say remove it for good =)
neramaar replied at 7:52 pm Aug 20,2008
Haha glad you liked it! We've been trying out a few new styles like this one to make it more interesting for the readers :)

As for the debate, who will win? What will be the verdict? You'll know soon enough. ;)
pengued
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 8:08 am
With the stamina system that game doesnt worth to play ... PPl would pay to item mall to refill their stamina so its ftp which force you to pay. I hate games that force you to do something. They can make it such a king that when you had stamina you will have 2x exp/drop rate when its gone normal like in Rappelz.
neramaar replied at 9:43 pm Aug 20,2008
Yeah it can be a bit rough, thats not a bad idea there mate. I like it.
halfbad
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 7:15 am
"one that would later be known as Stamina - the destroyer of worlds."

I had a good chuckle at this. Great article, and you are right. I won't go back unless they get rid of that stupid mechanic. That game had such potential too...
neramaar replied at 7:53 pm Aug 20,2008
Quoted! Woot! Hehe.

Thanks dude.
AkatsukiSwordmaster
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 6:56 am
very nice dude.
I agree with you totally. The stamina is a nice idea, but it just doesn't work for that kind of game.
neramaar replied at 7:52 pm Aug 20,2008
Thanks mate!
loganz35
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 2:16 am
Well, well isn't this stamina feature main reason why I didn't participate in this CBT? As I saw that little suspicious stamina reducing after every battle I did a little bit of math and got to conclusion - 100 battles per day is no way for me. To limit such a thing as leveling to certain amount per day is really bad idea, at least that is what I think. But to think that stamina feature could be more more annoying at level 50, that was punch from bellow. All I hope for is that this feature will be removed in OBT!

Anyways, it was good reading your debate review once in a while. ^_^
neramaar replied at 3:10 am Aug 20,2008
Haha thanks lol.
flowerKitten
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 1:49 am
Genius-ly unique :)
neramaar replied at 2:29 am Aug 20,2008
Thanks!
AgitoV
Post Time : Aug 20,2008 1:20 am
One more Great Article, good work!
neramaar replied at 2:29 am Aug 20,2008
Cheers dude!